at the enof the day, there's a deal. >> yeah, this is like the debt ceiling is a phony argument. it's really about charter renewal. it's a renewal of a charter do continue spending, and what time and again the american people have been misled on the debt ceiling, what we are talking about you can't default. the government can't default on the debt or paying china and the like, what's bad is entitlement reform. you can. >> but he won't. >> that's not covered by the debt ceiling. >> the president loathes to cut spending of any kind. he wants more spending, in fact, and under no circumstances will he touch medicare, medicaid, social security. agree with that? >> surprised if he touchedded them if there's no real substantive cuts. the only way to cut the diset would be to hit those. i don't think he will. think about this. if simpson-bowles was enacted two years ago or now, if it had, ten years down the road, debt to gdp would be 65%. livable. in greece, it's 100 and change. the other european countries it approaches a hundred. if we do nothing including the new deal putting put toge